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Iron Sharpening Finish

by delsur777, Sunday, June 07, 2009, 01:02

Hello,

I was just curious and wanted to see if anybody else has a similar observation to my own.

I sharpen my plane irons with the "sandpaper on glass" method. I built a jig that keeps the irons at a 25 degree angle and when I'm done I have a nice angle that looks machine ground. I use 80 grit and then 150 then 220 then 400. Sometimes I go to 600, but that's just for the heck of it. I read about a lot of people using oil and waterstones and honing to 1000 or 2000 and beyond, and many of them insist that you have to go to at least 1000 and ensure that the blade is shiny and has no stone or grind marks.

I have been working around woodworking and metalworking equipment for a long time, but I am new to handplaning. I may not be understanding what's going on, but I don't seem to need to go to that fine of a finish to accomplish what I'm trying to do. I think I could easily quit at 220, but I usually finish with a 400 grit just to make sure I don't have trouble with really hard wood or "persnickety" grain directions. I can hog off material, with or across the grain, and I can take, board width, paper thin shavings. The last one I mic'd was .003 which is .002 thinner that the toilet paper I use but, in fairness, I do buy the two ply so maybe the shavings should be thinner.

Does anyone else have the same observation, or is this a newbie mistake and I'm going to find I am not really accomplishing what I think I am.

Thanks, in advance, for you insight and observations.

  891 views

Iron Sharpening Finish

by billd, Sunday, June 07, 2009, 09:53 @ delsur777

I have sharpened with oil stones, water stones, sandpaper on glass and diamond stones. I have used guides and sharpened freehand. I started with oil stones (I'm old) freehand and now I'm back to that method with one addition, that is the one suggested by Larry Williams, to dress the stones with a diamond stone. Sometimes if I'm being real fussy I'll strop on leather dressed with Green compound. I still use my diamond stones to sharpen my card scrapers, and some times 120 grit sandpaper on glass to prep an edge. I could get rid of my water stones.
After all this I'll recommend to you or anyone, find your own way and degree of sharpeing. I've got mirrors to shave in and I don't have micro photography and I don't care. All I care about is the tool going to do what I ask of it.

Bill

  851 views

Iron Sharpening Finish

by delsur777, Sunday, June 07, 2009, 12:07 @ billd

Bill,

That sounds like some seriously good, and sage, advice and I'll be glad to follow it. Thanks for your help.

  782 views

Iron Sharpening Finish

by griph0n, Sunday, June 07, 2009, 12:26 @ delsur777

Try the wet dry 1000 and 2000 grit. A stunning differenceand no more trouble than the other papers. The fine grit papers seem to last alot longer and that pleases the skinflint in me. Less fussing about with the spray adhesive (that stuff is inconvenient and I just read somewhere about what a nasty health hazard it is, made sense to pop on a mask and do it in a far corner or outside).
The results made me buy a lee valley waterstone and honing jig. I just bought their green honing compound and freehanded a chisel on some mdf, wow.

Can the honing compound be used on glass ith the honing jig? I'm a bit leery of drubbing the edge on leather.

  803 views

Iron Sharpening Finish

by delsur777, Sunday, June 07, 2009, 16:24 @ griph0n

Try the wet dry 1000 and 2000 grit. A stunning differenceand no more trouble than the other papers. The fine grit papers seem to last alot longer and that pleases the skinflint in me. Less fussing about with the spray adhesive (that stuff is inconvenient and I just read somewhere about what a nasty health hazard it is, made sense to pop on a mask and do it in a far corner or outside).
The results made me buy a lee valley waterstone and honing jig. I just bought their green honing compound and freehanded a chisel on some mdf, wow.

Can the honing compound be used on glass ith the honing jig? I'm a bit leery of drubbing the edge on leather.

That part about saving money sounds pretty good. I may just give that a try. You could certainly use my honing jig with compound on the glass, but I am wary of putting anything on the glass...my original jig was built to run on the glass along the sides of the sandpaper. It didn't take long to realize that this setup was irreparably scuffing, scratching and ruining the glass (I also ran the jig through the sandpaper every now and then, but that was another problem.) My second jig (revision 1) fixed this problem by running along the sides of the glass and not on it. Having said that, it would be extremely easy to modify my setup and have a thin MDF top on the glass. That would give a flat, destructable, surface to work on and it would get rid of that stinky spray adhesive problem that you were mentioning. That may end up being revision 3.

Thanks for the help and the tips.
.

  767 views

Iron Sharpening Finish

by billd, Monday, June 08, 2009, 07:52 @ griph0n

In the days when I used to fuss a lot more I tried compound on glass. I shaved the compound off the stick with a knife into a jar and added a little paint thinner to make a paste. It seemed to work o.k. But I decided it was too much bother for the slight difference.

Bill

  818 views

Iron Sharpening Finish

by delsur777, Monday, June 08, 2009, 10:52 @ billd

In the days when I used to fuss a lot more I tried compound on glass. I shaved the compound off the stick with a knife into a jar and added a little paint thinner to make a paste. It seemed to work o.k. But I decided it was too much bother for the slight difference.

Bill

Bill,

I think my 'lazy bone' would kick in before I got half-way through with this process. Thanks for the insight.

  731 views

Iron Sharpening Finish

by nickurq, Saturday, April 10, 2010, 06:37 @ delsur777

I think most of us have found that sharpness is a magically dynamic, ever changing state of learning. You start off with an idea of what sharp is, in common sense terms, but very quickly, you'll read something or some kind old timer will show you something really useful, that you didn't know before and your sharpening skills will just 'click' up to the next stage.
From my personal experience, i often can't believe the level of bluntness that i regarded as 'razor sharp' in the early days of learning how planes work. My first flea market Stanley No.4 could have rivalled a cricket bat for its cutting incompetence. At least for the first year i didn't even try to sharpen. If it cut wood, then the plane was a plane to use, if not, then that plane was of no use.
Initially, like most people, i tried those bottom of the chest coarse oilstones which were never flat and had been clogged with 100 years of grime and graft. Sufficed to say, much tearout, lost temper and frustration at not knowing why this darn thing wouldn't work properly. The big leap from essentially blunt blades came for me, when i read David Fink's superb reference on making planes, which i believe is the best available, general course, covering all aspects of planecraft. That book layed out in simple terms the absolute prerequisite, which says, either you get a consistently angled burr and a flat back, or you have a poor edge. A fingernail to find the burr on the back of the blade is in all seriousness probably the most useful sharpening tip i've learnt in 10 years. Before that, i didn't really 'get', that often, i wasn't actually reaching the edge at all, but just honing the lower part of a convex bevel. The oilstone sharp blades moved the edges from being totally blunt, to a reasonably useful cutting condition, but still with much roughness and patchy bevel angle.
Eventually sharpening only by hand using the side to side method achieved much better angle consistency. This great technique was learned when i bought a Steve Knight jointer. My formerly lofty ideas of sharp were destroyed in seconds. His website has some great tips for the eager novice. I still judge my sharpness against the out of the box sharpness of Steve's planes. However, with the hand method, i was still rocking the blade a little, which rolled the cutting edge and detracted from the final sharpness.
The next step up, which really made the biggest leap i've seen in edge performance, was when i bought my first Japanese waterstones. Firstly the back flatness was shockingly exact and what really converted me was how quick they are. I found that the coarse/medium stone by King to be unbeatable value for money at £15, though that was a while ago. In the early stages, i often spent 5 hours trying to hand hone the chips out of a rock hard 19th c. Ibbotson or Hearnshaw Bros. iron. Many times it wasn't successful. With waterstones, i could use the right grit and have a totally butchered blade which hadn't been used in a century perfectly dressed in under an hour. The 6000 grit is the most impressive thing i've seen in a while, which for the first time got me to a razor worthy edge. My test at this stage was,'did it take a hair' and did it cut a piece of writing paper, without tearing or having to skew/slide the blade? You've got to keep them flat and deglazed for the best results, but they are superior in terms of paying for themselves and the top level results they bring.
Just when i thought that i had finally 'arrived' in the sharpness stakes, i bought a Scheppach electric wetstone, which has a gradeable wheel, running in water and a leather honing wheel. In the first few days i was shocked and endowed with many painful but much appreciated hand cuts. As is the way, what i thought was sharp, turned out to actually sit somewhere at the low end of the newly discovered razor sharp scale. The Scheppach gets a honed edge far more consistently crisp, with none of the common roll which knocks back the edge, when you sharpen side to side by hand. The test i now use employs hitting the blade against the edge of newspaper. I have found that a waterstone edge will only cut a limp sheet when it is perfectly hand honed, but most often it will bend or tear it. With the jig held leather wheel hone, you know the edge will stand, when it will, without effort, pass through a page of thin newspaper from top to bottom without any buckling or tearing. I find that test will accurately tell me when i need to re-hone the plane blade, long before you start screaming after tearing out your best board.
Sorry for the long essay, but i know that i for one would of jumped at the chance for a few tips in the early stages, when my workshop was a truly dangerous place to be if you were a piece of wood. Cheers, Nick.

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